Two Hand Independence

Yeah, well – kinda depends what I’m doing

mostly I’m left handed, but I eat right-handed and catch a ball right handed etc.

I do play guitar also, mainly because it’s easier to do a gig carrying a guitar that trucking around the piano/keyboard.

I’ll check out that thread.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

I guess this belongs in the Bruce-Brad thread more than here, but I’ll answer here.

Regarding my comment about harmonic language, let’s stay in the language metaphor. Mehldau would be closer to a classic novel in terms of verbiage and ornate lexicon, and Hornsby would be like Tom Robbins – a few ten-dollar words here and there, but still quite casual and vernacular.

Rhythmically, Bruce digs into the groove more, I find, and plays relatively straight-up-and-down. Mehldau flows more and plays phrases that aren’t necessarily in multiples of two or four. I think it has to do with the different influences at play – Mehldau doesn’t really deal with bluegrass or Leon Russell; Bruce doesn’t bring a lot of Radiohead or Brahms to the party. That said, I have heard Mehldau be really rhythmically aggressive and groove more and I’ve heard Bruce play flowing, over-the-bar-line style improv. I’m just generalizing here. The other thing too is that Mehldau has done a lot of stuff in 5/4, 7/4, 7/8 and other odd time signatures (i.e. the bars have more than four beats in them). I don’t know of any Bruce song that stays in an odd meter for long (Tango King’s in 9/8… that’s about it).

Touch is such a subjective thing among pianists – it’s really just the sound they get out of the piano, and a listen to the two of them side by side will easily show the difference. Use whatever adjectives you want – there’s no right answer here. They’re just different.

David

Regarding time signatures –

I think this is mainly because bruce has strong country/bluegrass roots – or maybe he just doesn’t dig fancy time sigs.

*shameless plug* – listen to our track Making Me Wings at http://www.myspace.com/daverichband

The verses are in 18/4 and the choruses 5/8

It just wouldn’t work in any other sig.

our drummer is pestering me to write something in 9/8 – the problem is getting people to dance in 9/8

Kind regards

Dave Rich

circus on the moon question

Hi David,

I have read your many fantastic questions regarding two-handed independence. Bruce demonstrates this so well, PLUS adding his own voice into the sequence is truly more like 3-part independence (ie., adding an independent 3rd “instrument” to the right and left hand thematic elements). That is ever so much more difficult than what Chick Corea or Keith Jarrett do (although they are awesome pianists, yet minus any vocals…melodic, that is.)

So, Bruce does more of a 3-way split, if you will. Even more difficult, but with great success.

I also noticed several of your questions went unanswered. Regarding “Circus”, Bruce builds a strong solo theme in E major, as you can probably tell. Where you may think he is going “flat” is the most fascinating part of his solo. Rather than shifting down to E flat, Bruce takes that particular bar into the key of F major and back to E by the next bar.

Suggestion: try playing the E maj theme, then after 4 repeats, play C-A-F-E on each beat, descending in the bass line. Come right back to the E major theme and repeat. Next, try adding E octaves in the right hand on every beat. Finally, when you’re really good at it (or “sick of it” as some have said) start playing different right hand notes that make up the C major 7 scale when playing over the left hand descending CAFE. But always quickly come back to E major right hand elements on the downbeats of following measures.

The reason it seems to slip “flat” is in the right hand, where Bruce seems to improv on the Cmaj7 scale over a F chord bass line, the 5th of the C scale is the note G. He uses the G to lead back to the G# (the strong 3rd of the E major chord/scale). In actuality, the change is a 1/2 step higher than E.

It is not easy, but it is a great example of what Bruce does so very well. Two handed independence, in the wonderful signature hallmark of Bruce Hornsby!

Hope this helps and doesn’t confuse the daylights out of you!

Happy practicing,
Todd

Hey David, saw you were online…Yes, it does “sound” like it is 1/2 step flat (or down).

I have a thought. I assume you’ve figured out the left hand basic E repeated pattern or sequence of eighth notes, right? E, 8va E, E D# C# B D# C# E F# G# A G# E C# B A E

All this before it modulates (or “goes flat”, as you put it).

Are you with me this far?

Todd

Re: Two Hand Independence (“Circus” modulation)

David,

Great! Oh, you won’t have to read 8ths or quarters for this part. Just use your ears.

Ok, I won’t confuse this issue with another mind-blowing thing Bruce does on that 1st sequence. The “flat” sounding phrase then comes in the l.h. bass line, beginning with the downbeat, and ON each beat: E C A F (yes) E.

(that F to E bass line might explain why it sounds flat, but you’re really spelling out an F chord before returning to E)

Try that until you can do it in your sleep while playing E octaves in the r.h. on the beat. It always sounds good, regardless of the l.h. note being played. Advance your quarter notes to eighths, (on and off beats) in the r.h., always returning to the E sequence once between modulations. It really helps to play along with the Halcyon album, where you clearly hear the bass piano line.

Do that for a few hours, (or weeks…) and begin improvising the r.h. throughout. Do what sounds good to you, but keep consistent in the l.h. Run up the E major scale in r.h. several times from middle E to the next octave.

Hint: Try a few times, before you do the ECAFE (above) bass line descent, try beginning on B with 8ths, B B A A G# G# EE in the r.h., then on the CAFE in rh play GG (NATURAL) EE CC EC B. Get bored? Try syncopating rh melodies (playing triplets over the straight quarter and eighth bass lines).

I better quit here and see how it goes with you. This is in no way as advanced as what Bruce does, but it is a start.

Man, I know what you mean about Bruce’s fantastic 2-handed plays getting stuck in your head. I think Bruce should write a two-handed exercise book called “Bruce’s Hanons” or something!

Plus the fact he often sings along with it an independent melody line, plus clever lyrics, PLUS the fact he WROTE the whole thing…Plus the fact that he varies the styles to where you never tire of it, that is very strong musicianship in my opinion.

Hope this helps! Happy sequencing David!

Todd

Re: Two Hand Independence/Circus

Glad you’re enjoying! Those “Brucercises” sometimes make me want to give it up, but then I always come back to the piano more challenged as a musician.

And, I am sorry I’m not more clear on the G thing. (G# is not at all happy with F!! Don’t do it!!)

Let me put it differently. The “time signature” is the same for both hands, 4/4, but I think you mean the rhythm of the rh over the lh ECAFE bass descent. While the ECAFE is on the beat (quarter notes), try rh eighth notes on each beat BB GG(natural) EE CC E (repeating 1st main lh theme for the next measure, just using rh octave E or B, then repeat above. Throw in some 16ths, leave out some downbeat notes, etc).

Improvising is important here, as it would take a whole lot of practice to get the actual Bruce runs down. I can’t stress enough listening to the actual piece while playing. If you have Windows Media Player, or equivalent, you can slow down a section to listen to it. Sounds awful, but you can picking up at a slower tempo the notes and rhythms of the Circus sequences.

Here’s some suggestions:
Try adding grace notes to the BB GG EE etc, try ending on B, try F chord arpeggios over the ECAFE descent, finish with a 1/2 step scale up to the 3rd high E. But do it S_L_O_W_L_Y_ or it will drive you crazy!

Enough for now. Hope this helps a little! Happy prestidigitations David!

Todd

Right on, Marcus!

You’re totally right. That 2 minutes is an excellent intro to the 2-handed D-F-G 5ths cadence with right hand improv. Is the foundation for “King of the Hill.” Way cool!

If Bruce would put out a 20 minute tutorial called the “Hornsby Hanons”, I would be first in line to purchase! Wonder if he’d do it? Video would be great, but even CD/manuscript would work.

How’s it coming with the Brucercises, David?

–Todd