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trent wrote:Today almost any band who doesn’t catch on and have commercial hits within the first 6 months of its first album is cut. There is no more artist development period giving talented artists time to grow and build a loyal following.
This has been true for some time. As the focus of individual radio stations has narrowed, so has the focus (and thus, exposure) of so many listeners. The artist’s lot has become “work for years to put together enough material for a solid album that will have enough hits on it to sustain you, and then try to cram a promotional tour and the writing and recording of an entirely new album into the next year.” The development process is stunted almost from the start, and you end up getting hyper-formulaic second offerings in an effort to recapture whatever it was that you took years to do in the first place.
But,is this all that different from what has been in place all along? How many albums did the Beatles chunk out that were essentially recreations of their first album or what had been their live act going back to the bars in Hamburg? And they sandwiched all of that around endless touring. They were lucky enough to have had enough material to sustain the initial few years of insanity and moved enough product that they could earn the freedom in the studio that so many new artists these days expect from the get-go. It also didn’t hurt that they had a couple of guys who could write a new tune or two in a hurry, although that process changed from a cycle of “write, rehearse, rewrite, rehearse, play live, record’ to “write most of it, work out the arrangement in the studio while sorta rehearsing, record, play live (maybe)”.
Bruce followed a somewhat similar path. The first album (“The Way It Is”) was the product of years of schlepping around trying to get heard and signed. The second album (“Scenes From The Southside”) was a by-product of that in that many of the tunes were probably ready to be recorded when the first album was climbing the charts. Of all of the Bruce Hornsby albums, those two have the most similar sound. “Night On The Town” was different in that the songs sounded like ones that the band had hashed out on the road before going into the studio, and it feels more like a full band album than a Bruce-with-backing-musicians album. If Bruce hadn’t had material for the second album ready or nearly ready when the first one was doing its’ thing on the charts, the third one might never have happened.
For so many artists, it’s the second album that’s the key. I don’t know what the standard is these days, but it used to be that a new act got a 3-album contract. The first one was a roll of the dice and depended a lot on what material was ready and how well the artists acclimated themselves to a studio setting. The second one was often the big payoff album on the contract, and the third one only got promotion if the second album did OK. Unfortunately, if the second album did really well, the third one might have been assumed to not need all the promotion that it might get. Then, if it fell on its’ face for lack of hits or promotion, au revoir band, next…
I can think of a few examples from the 80s.
Mr. Mister’s first album was ok-ish. You could tell that there was something interesting going on, but it wasn’t quite there yet. Their second album, “Welcome To The Real World” was chock-full of hits and sold like a monster. The third album was artistically their best offering, but it didn’t have another “Broken Wings” or “Kyrie” on it, so the record companies didn’t know how to promote it and crossed their fingers that it would do OK because of residual “name” from the previous one. It tanked. They broke up.
The Bangles had a nice run. Their first album was kinda of a knock off of the GoGos, but it had “future promise.” They lived up to the promise on the second album, which had all of their biggest hits. The third album found them stretching artistcally, but only “Eternal Flame” was a hit, and they didn’t get a second contract. They broke up.
A&R development by the record companies seems to have long been just a myth, with the possible exception of a few isolated periods in the mid-to-late 60s or early 80s when a new generation of record execs would be taking over the helm at the companies and wanting to make their mark on the industry before retreating back to the safe confines of formula pop.
Rich
treah wrote:This topic has created more questions than answers. But that just makes it all the more interesting!I’ve thought long and hard about this. I don’t mind thinking long, but at my age, the other is, well… probably protected by HIPAA or something. Nonetheless, I’m working on some sort of pseudo-definitive diatribe on this subject. Unfortunately, I can’t guarantee that it will either make a lick of sense, be meaningful, or even sniff the nether regions of coherency. Nonetheless, it’ll likely have to spawn a new topic (the real reason for putting you all through this agony). I’m sure somewhere in there, I should have to mention that Sheryl Crow is a hideous dancer, but I haven’t figure out how to work that in yet. Maybe the trouser elephant reference will have to make a comeback, but that would mean I’d have to say “How ’bout them Mets?”, so maybe I won’t. Well, as they once said… same bat channel, blah blah blah, et cum spiritu tu… Et renovabis faciem terrae.
Rich
“I’ve suffered for my music — now it’s your turn.” – N. Innes
David Day, in his marvelously audacious way, wrote:Have you had your “daily dose” of Stacked Mary Possum today?
: 😆Actually…. yes, I did. And it was tasty as always. Thank you very much for the suggestion.
Rich
“The only thing I hope to never see is another possum in this tree playing possum” – L. Reed
bryandunn wrote:For me it was Styx, November 14, 1978 at the Hampton Coliseum (on their Grand Illusion tour…). Opening act was Nick Guilder (how many remember this one-hit wonder?), and the cost…$8.Wow! I worked as an usher at that show. I had a fun part-time job for a few years after high school working as an usher at Hampton Coliseum, and saw all sorts of diverse acts, ranging from Parliament Funkadelic to The Rolling Stones (Peter Tosh as opening act!!) to Van Halen to everything in between and not. What a fun gig for a kid.
Rich
“Stranger dressed in black, she’s a hungry child. No one knows who she is or what her name is” – N. GIlder
tgreene wrote:I think the best way to describe Bruce’s career is that it’s been a constant evolution and pursuit of unchartered territories. I’ve always found it hard to define his career as peaks/valleys. Presently, I think Bruce is not pushing like he’s been for last 20+ years. I don’t think writing is happening like it once did but this is not to say it won’t since Bruce’s is constantly full of surprise. I think the next record will be similar to Halcyon Days but after that, I’m not sure where he goes. It might be more jazz, solo piano stuff. All I know is that it’s been an absolute pleasure to have been along for the ride all this time!!In short, our boy gets bored easily. So far, he’s taken this musical version of attention deficit disorder and given us all a wonderful ride through his imagination. It’s been full of surprises, both wonderful and not so, but it’s been anything but boring. That’s why we stay on the ride. The unexpected is always thrilling when Bruce is at the controls. And nobody in the backseat is yelling, “are we there yet?”, because the getting there is probably more fun.
Rich
“He is your leader, he is your guide. On the amazing journey together you’ll ride.” – P. Townshend
Our new friend, Nicos wrote:Sometimes I wish Mr. Hornsby would have a big revolving stage, with the Noisemakers, DeJohnette & McBride, & Ricky Skaggs & Kentucky Thunder each occupying a section. We can all have dreams.Sounds like you need to get down to Virginia for Hampton Bay Days. From all indications, it’ll be as close to your dream as I would imagine ever happening. The last time I looked, it appears that Bruce is doing 2 shows, one with Ricky Skaggs, and another with The Noisemakers. My guess is that each will probably be an hour or slightly longer. Watch the posts in this forum as this disorganized collection of music fanatics, road scholars, and otherwise wonderful ne’er-do-wells search in vain for an elusive sartorial consensus.
Rich
“Never seen anyone come out. Never seen anyone go in.” – Uno Hoo
David Day wrote:A year later, we have Stacked Mary Possum, Un Poco Loco/Chant Song and Camp Meeting!
Life is good!
Have you had your “daily dose” of Stacked Mary Possum today?
: 😆Well, David, you have a point. I think it’s right on the top of your head 😆
Rich
“Where do we go from here?” – W. Cronkite, 7/20/1969, just after Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon.
Alas, a year later, and a fun topic is resurrected. Thanks, Nicos, for a) joining our little forum and b) for helping many of us revisit topics and giving us a new point of view.
What is the “State Of The Musical Union” a year later? Pretty much the same. A lot of artists and composers are working their butts off trying to make art, and some are even successful at it. I found a few interesting diamonds in the rough this year – one of the industry moguls of the day (Timbaland) unearthed a semi-obscure band called OneRepublic, remixed one of their tracks, and turned that sucker into a hit record. That led me to check out their other work, and I discovered some interesting and listenable music. In short, it’s still total dumb luck as to whether or not an artist’s work gets wide exposure. And, also like always, a lot of garbage floated to the top.
The one thing that struck me in the past year was the emergence of one single media and entertainment company as the dominant force in the music marketplace – Disney. And the new star of the day – Billy Ray Cyrus’s kid, playing the role of Hannah Montana.
This movement tends to beg a lot of questions that I don’t have the answer to:
- What will or has this done to the state of the art?[/*:m:fdf43]
- Is it good? Is it bad?[/*:m:fdf43]
- Does it make even the slightest bit of difference that they have eclipsed all of the “traditional” music companies?[/*:m:fdf43]
- Why did the “traditional” music companies get eclipsed? Is it because of online music piracy, the lack of new blockbuster acts, or just sheer lazy marketing on their part?[/*:m:fdf43]
- Does this open up a huge void that new indie music companies are in a position to fill?[/*:m:fdf43]
- Technology has certainly changed the distribution channels for music, and thus the flow of money. WIll it help or hurt the ability of an artist to create music and retain those legal and commercial rights necessary to finance more art creation? Has the old copyright paradigm been rendered obsolete?[/*:m:fdf43]
In short, where are we now? And where are we going?
Heck… am I reading this wrong and I’m just completely ignorant and full of schnitzel? Thoughts? Any and all are welcome. This is always a topic worth discussing.
Rich
Mine was Badfinger at William and Mary Hall in Williamsburg. The opening act was some group I had never heard of called The Doors. It was after Jim Morrison croaked, so I had no idea what I was missing until many years later. WIthin a couple of weeks of that show, I saw (at the same place) Chicago and then Seals and Crofts. Being hooked on concerts at that point, I followed it up with a trip to the Hampton Coliseum to see Three Dog Night. Wow, that was a long freaking time ago.
Rich
David Day wrote:Our “team” is “Bruuuce.com” on the front and choose whatever you want as your name on your back! 😆 Be creative as you want for the name on your back, but it has to be either be a Bruce lyric or name of a Bruce song. Carey, for example, would have “Bruuuce.com” on the front and could have “King of the Hill” on the back! 😆
What do you think?
:You mean like one of those old-timey baseball jerseys with the buttons down the front and Bruuuuce.com in script on the front? Cool!
[attachment=1:3d3fa]jersey.jpg[/attachment:3d3fa]
Rich
PS. DARN! This one’s already taken:
[attachment=0:3d3fa]bruuuce.jpg[/attachment:3d3fa]David Day wrote:What about a T that says, “Long time ago, way back when”?!: ❗Or, the ever popular t-shirt with a hand pointing to the left or right that says “I’m with Si”
Rich
David Day wrote:You still haven’t answered my question! 😆 Does that mean you are going to bless us with your appearence?:
MVF has had some great T-shirts ideas in the past! For example, MVF could naturally be “Miss Virginia Former”, Rich could be “Mr. D.E.” in the corner, Byan could be “Mr. B.M.O.C.”, and daverich could be “Mr. P.E.” 😆 I could be the “Tango King”, Trent could be the “Country Doctor”, Si could be the “Big Rumble”! 😆 Which leaves “Spider Fingers”, “Hot House Ball”, and “Swing Street” open for your imagination. 😆 😆 😆
You get the picture! Who should be what?
:I claim “Tango King”!
Heck yeah. I wouldn’t miss this for anything.
Can I be “Lost Soul”? Or perhaps “Charlie”, the small town pornographer, uh, er, I mean… “merchant” who’s showing the judge the picture show from France?
Rich
“We were doubly blessed. We were barely seventeen and we were barely dressed.” – J. SteinmanI wrote:They haven’t made an “official” announcement on the site for the festival, but let’s all keep checking at http://www.baydays.com/ or the entertainment schedule at http://www.baydays.com/entertainment/If this isn’t true, I’m gonna be really bummed.
No need to be bummed. It’s posted on Bruce’s list of concerts as both a “With Ricky” and a “WIth Noisemakers” (2 shows, one at 2:30 and one at 4:40). Not only does that make it official, it means double the Bruce. This fall is gonna rock!
Si, got any t-shirt ideas for this year? We could get all geeky and wear something identifiably “Bruuuce” to make meeting up in a crowd easier. Just a thought.
Rich
“Conscience is persistent, a haunting seed I’ve sown. It calls me from the distance, and it just won’t leave me alone.” – I. ThomasDavid Day wrote:Maybe even Rich will bless us with his appearence! 😆
Sounds like a good party to me!Blessed art thou who enjoy the Bruceness, for they will inherit the tunes.
Rich
bryandunn wrote:what bummed me out at the festival last year was only one, count ’em, ONE booth had any good salsa / sauce (and this boy likes it hot!). What happened to the local area producers of good salsa and Habanero fixes for chili heads?The food at Bay Days has become pretty much like any other festival in any other town. The same vendors seem to be at Bay Days, Blackbeard Festival, Harborfest, etc. I can remember when they even had local beers available at these things, but now it’s just Miller Lite (ick) and the odd Bud vendor. Oh well, since I’m on a sodium-restricted diet, I don’t even bother with the food vendors any more.
I have found a fun game that my wife and I played last year at Bay Days… the “I Bet You” game. It came from watching this show that runs on the MOJO HD channel, starrring pro poker players Phil Laak and Antonio Esfandiari. In the show, they go around whatever town they’re in and place bets on whatever. For instance, they might bet on who can eat an ice cream cone faster, or whether or not the 5th person that walks past them in a certain block will be wearing blue jeans or not, or stuff like that. They get more elaborate than that, but the basic premise is good for working a festival. Lisa and I bet each other for “points” (they used real cash on the show) on things like “I bet you that that ugly hat that looks like a crab is more than $10” (it was only $8.50) or “I bet you that the 10th person who passes us going the other way will be a blonde female” (it was). It’s a great time passer and a way to have fun dealing with crowds of people. Just a thought
Rich
“You could make more money as a butcher” – F. Zappatrent wrote:I’ve only been to Hampton Bay Days once, but I BELIEVE that the concerts there are free and totally open to the public. Bay Days is sort of a block party/lawn party/festival put on by the city of Hampton every year.Yes… Bay Days is a 3-day excuse to go downtown and drink, uh, er, I mean… festival. The concerts are free, and outdoors. Last year, the big “names” were Grand Funk Railroad, War, Cameo, and Sammy Kershaw. They usually have a couple of artists that people have actually heard of, and the odd up-and-coming outfit. My fav band I’d never heard before was a sort of progressive Zappa-meets-bluegrass band called Special Ed and The Short Bus. Oh, heck… y’all come visit our little town if indeed Bruce is doing not one but two hometown freebies. This soooo rocks!
They haven’t made an “official” announcement on the site for the festival, but let’s all keep checking at http://www.baydays.com/ or the entertainment schedule at http://www.baydays.com/entertainment/
If this isn’t true, I’m gonna be really bummed.
Rich
“Sleepless days and sleepless nights and far aways, oooo ooo, wishing you were, wishing you were here.” – T. KathSometimes, I get confused about places out west… is Colorado where you ride pygmy ponies and raise dental floss crops? Or is that Montana?
David Day wrote:Here is my “wishlist”.
Tivoli(Chattanooga), Biltmore, Chastain Park(Atlanta), Charolotte, TN Theater(Knoxville), Roanoke(What about that Carey?
),Williamsburg(private show! ), Viriginia Beach, Phily, Wolf Trap! That’s not asking too much is it? 😆 😆 😆
So, here’s what we do. Get all of us together and have a big poker game. Winner gets to decide where the private show will be. The whole thing gets paid for by giving Bruce a new topic for a song that will end up making him millions because it will be used as the bumper music for next year’s ESPN coverage of the World Series of Poker!
Rich
“You should have seen me with the poker man. I had a honey, and I bet a grand. Just in the nick of time I looked at his hand.” – P. McCartneyDavid Day wrote:That just tells me we need to do a private show!
Anyone interested in a private show?:OhShenandoah wrote:I too feel a private show for Bruuuce.com world is in order.Si… got enough space to put the bunch of us up for the night? How ’bout a park or a pub or something in the neighbourhood? There’s no place in the world more appropriate for a Bruuuuce.com private show than Si’s bailiwick. Or, we could book a place in Williamsburg, but we’d have to avoid the summer, ‘cuz that’s prime tourist season and everything costs twice as much.
RIch
“You do not lead by hitting people over the head — that’s assault, not leadership.” – D.D. Eisenhowergdwoman wrote:Not sure what you’re talking about – on the official site, I saw 1 solo gig, and the rest are with Ricky. I do hope you know something I don’t… I miss those boys something fierce…My bad. Whatever it was I saw on the site back when I posted that led me to believe that there absolutely were Noisemakers shows being scheduled. Now, I can follow the link and get the specific list of shows, and all there are listed are “with Ricky” shows and the solo one. Sorry.
Rich
“Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn’t misuse it.” – Pope John Paul IIDave Rich wrote:we’re thinking of coming over this year, but if there’s no noisemakers gigs I might leave it til next year.Pack your bags, and practice keeping your tray tables in an upright and locked position. From the looks of Bruce’s “official” page, I get the impression hat 2008 is a Noisemakers year. Just keep us Statesiders abreast of your itinerary, so that we can meet up somewhere along the way.
Common Rich
Common (sic) Eileen, I swear (well, he means) at this moment, you mean everything.“- K. Adams
David Day wrote:Have you had your “daily dose” of Stacked Mary Possum today? 😆Is it any good with Tabasco on it?
Dave Rich wrote:definately should be an album coverMaybe for the next tribute album
I wonder if he still has that shirt or those glasses.
Rich
“So take a step back and see the little people. They may be young , but they’re the ones who make the big people big.” – G. Frost
Allisa wrote:Hey! I may be easy, but I ain’t cheap! 😉Nope. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Never mind.
For dinner music during the reception, I would suggest having the A Classic Case: The London Symphony Orchestra Plays The Music Of Jethro Tull, Featuring Ian Anderson CD playing. It’s got that sophisticated too-formal symphonic sound to it that will appeal to folks who are into that and expect a formal occasion to be stuffy even though they have no idea what the tunes are, and they play Locomotive Breath, which should have a whole different generation of guests snickering into their chicken cordon bleu. One of my brothers took me up on that suggestion for his wedding, and it was pretty damned funny. There are some other CDs out there with classicalish interpretations of rock songs, but none quite carry off the disguise as well as that one does. Good luck.
If Bruce is too expensive, you could probably get the entire lineup of the Shadowhands and Caesar Salad projects to show up for a hell of a lot less
Rich
: 😆
